Kobe Better than Jordan

[Silent Assasin]

I am a Jordan fan through and through, but at this stage in his career, is Kobe a more complete player than Jordan at the same age? Who's a better shooter, defender, etc? Kobe is not 30 yet. Jordan was nearly unstoppable in his 30's, but in his twenties, he was predominantly a slasher/dunker. I'd give the nod to Kobe for shooting at this stage in their careers. I mainly ask this question in hopes of starting a good discussion.

[BiG JeW]

Originally Posted by Silent Assasin

I am a Jordan fan through and through, but at this stage in his career, is Kobe a more complete player than Jordan at the same age? Who's a better shooter, defender, etc? Kobe is not 30 yet. Jordan was nearly unstoppable in his 30's, but in his twenties, he was predominantly a slasher/dunker. I'd give the nod to Kobe for shooting at this stage in their careers. I mainly ask this question in hopes of starting a good discussion.

NO COMPARSISON... NO DISCUSSUION NEEDED! IF ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT THEN, THEY ARE HARD HEADED! JORDAN!

[Silent Assasin]

Why do U say that Jordan is better? I'm talking about at this stage of their career. Jordan at Kobe's age was not as an accomplished jump shooter and he definitely did not have Kobe's range from the 3 land. Now in his 30's when MJ peaked, I'd give the edge to Jordan, but in their 20's Kobe was a better complete player.

[D/\SH]

Originally Posted by BiG JeW

NO COMPARSISON... NO DISCUSSUION NEEDED! IF ANYONE SAYS ANYTHING DIFFERENT THEN, THEY ARE HARD HEADED! JORDAN!

as big of a jordan fan as i am its hard to say but true....... kobe will be a better player and break jordans records by the end of his career..... but also remember kobe is going to have mre years in the nba since he came straight from high school

[Silent Assasin]

I did not take into account the time in the NBA Kobe will have when he's done. Some will say that the extra wear and tear will catch up to him. If he played like Wade I'd be more apt to agree. I don't put stock into the numbers because Jordan had injuries early in his career as well as the retirements that will take away from his numbers.

Karl Malone is second in all time scoring behing Kareem, but I would not classify Malone as the number 2 best scorer in NBA history. Centers tradional have along careers while other positions like SG have shorter careers.

Are we letting nostagia cloud our judgment because we do not want anyone to be greater than his airness.

[TAR]

if jordan never retired the first time there would be no discussion about any of this? not playing for a couple years takes a lot of ur body.

[Silent Assasin]

Again, I'm talking about comparing quality of work at this stage of Kobe's career with Jordan at the same age, not totality of NBA career.

[TAR]

yea i know i just wanted to say that..lol

[worldwide]

Kobe definitely is a better shooter overall because MJ did'nt become a shooter until his lift started fadin but c'mon dude got 6 rings without a dominant center his defense was incredible and he made everybody around him better (except for Stacey King) I think if the lakers stay healthy Kobe may surpass Mike in rings because they gon be good for the next few seasons, then we can come back and have this discussion.

[Silent Assasin]

Yeah, but he didn't get the rings by himself. He started getting rings once Pippen (top 50 all time) and Grant came around. Some would argue that Pippen was a better on ball defender due to his length. Regardless, thats why I like Kobe, he always wants to play the opposing teams best player to shut them down.

Jordan was also critisized that he didn't make his team mates better and critics questioned could a league leading scorer win a championship.

When all is said and done, could Jordan be surpassed? I think that Jordan understood the game and when to take over like no other and yes he adapted to a perimeter game, due to lack of consistant explosiveness throughout a game.

But again Kobe is still in his 20's and in the prime of his career with comparible numbers now and he has that killer instinct to rip the heart from his opponents, just like...

Besides it's fun having the discussion now!

[D/\SH]

Originally Posted by Silent Assasin

Yeah, but he didn't get the rings by himself. He started getting rings once Pippen (top 50 all time) and Grant came around. Jordan was also critisized that he didn't make his team mates better and critics questioned could a league leading scorer win a championsip.

lol damn dissing on us for supporting jordan than you get defensive when we diss on bryant lol.....

[Silent Assasin]

No dis intended. I didn't realize anyone dissed Kobe at all. I'm actually looking for someone to convince me that Kobe is not better than Jordan at this stage, plus I like having good arguments.

[D/\SH]

Originally Posted by Silent Assasin

No dis intended. I didn't realize anyone dissed Kobe at all. I'm actually looking for someone to convince me that Kobe is not better than Jordan at this stage, plus I like having good arguments.

lol for sure

[ICEM/\N]

I would like to title this "MR. 81 Pointer."


Listen "Men Lie, Women Lie, but numbers don't!"

The Los Angeles Lakers' star scored a phenomenal 81 points -- the second-highest total in NBA history -- in a 122-104 victory over the Toronto Raptors. Only Wilt Chamberlain's storied 100-point game nearly 44 years ago ranks higher. But this is not what really matters...I just wanted to mention it,lol. Bottom line is, that it is to hard to compare these two players to see who was better, because each one had higher strengths in one area over the other as you will see in the stats I have provided below,not to mention you have a whole boatload of things to factors in such as injuries, supporting team members, and the quality of players that both of these players went up against in their own respective times...

No given the fact that KOBE never had the opportunity to go to college and give his game that collegiate preparation that many may say he never needed...but still Jordan received that preparation which is something that needs to be pointed out...who knows how much better Kobe may have been out after a collegiate atmosphere, given his excellence just right out of high school.


These are Jordans stats

CAREER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS PER GAME
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
84-85 CHI 82 82 38.3 .515 .173 .845 2.00 4.50 6.50 5.9 2.39 .84 3.55 3.50 28.2
85-86 CHI 18 7 25.1 .457 .167 .840 1.30 2.30 3.60 2.9 2.06 1.17 2.50 2.60 22.7
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.00 3.20 5.20 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.70 3.80 5.50 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.80 6.20 8.00 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.70 5.10 6.90 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
90-91 CHI 82 82 37.0 .539 .312 .851 1.40 4.60 6.00 5.5 2.72 1.01 2.46 2.80 31.5
91-92 CHI 80 80 38.8 .519 .270 .832 1.10 5.30 6.40 6.1 2.28 .94 2.50 2.50 30.1
92-93 CHI 78 78 39.3 .495 .352 .837 1.70 5.00 6.70 5.5 2.83 .78 2.65 2.40 32.6
94-95 CHI 17 17 39.3 .411 .500 .801 1.50 5.40 6.90 5.3 1.76 .76 2.06 2.80 26.9
95-96 CHI 82 82 37.7 .495 .427 .834 1.80 4.80 6.60 4.3 2.20 .51 2.40 2.40 30.4
96-97 CHI 82 82 37.9 .486 .374 .833 1.40 4.50 5.90 4.3 1.71 .54 2.02 1.90 29.6
97-98 CHI 82 82 38.8 .465 .238 .784 1.60 4.20 5.80 3.5 1.72 .55 2.26 1.80 28.7
01-02 WAS 60 53 34.9 .416 .189 .790 .80 4.80 5.70 5.2 1.42 .43 2.70 2.00 22.9
02-03 WAS 82 67 37.0 .445 .291 .821 .90 5.20 6.10 3.8 1.50 .48 2.11 2.10 20.0
CAREER 1,072 1,039 38.3 .497 .327 .835 1.60 4.70 6.20 5.3 2.35 .83 2.73 2.60 30.1
Playoff 179 179 41.8 .487 .332 .828 1.70 4.70 6.40 5.7 2.10 .88 3.05 3.00 33.4
All-Star 13 13 29.4 .472 .273 .750 1.70 3.00 4.70 4.2 2.85 .46 3.23 2.40 20.2





and these are Kobe's stats


Career Season Averages
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
96-97 LAL 71 6 15.5 0.417 0.375 0.819 0.7 1.2 1.9 1.3 0.7 0.3 1.58 1.40 7.6
97-98 LAL 79 1 26.0 0.428 0.341 0.794 1.0 2.1 3.1 2.5 0.9 0.5 1.99 2.30 15.4
98-99 LAL 50 50 37.9 0.465 0.267 0.839 1.1 4.2 5.3 3.8 1.4 1.0 3.14 3.10 19.9
99-00 LAL 66 62 38.2 0.468 0.319 0.821 1.6 4.7 6.3 4.9 1.6 0.9 2.76 3.30 22.5
00-01 LAL 68 68 40.9 0.464 0.305 0.853 1.5 4.3 5.9 5.0 1.7 0.6 3.24 3.30 28.5
01-02 LAL 80 80 38.3 0.469 0.250 0.829 1.4 4.1 5.5 5.5 1.5 0.4 2.79 2.90 25.2
02-03 LAL 82 82 41.5 0.451 0.383 0.843 1.3 5.6 6.9 5.9 2.2 0.8 3.51 2.70 30.0
03-04 LAL 65 64 37.6 0.438 0.327 0.852 1.6 3.9 5.5 5.1 1.7 0.4 2.63 2.70 24.0
04-05 LAL 66 66 40.7 0.433 0.339 0.816 1.4 4.5 5.9 6.0 1.3 0.8 4.09 2.60 27.6
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 0.450 0.347 0.850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.90 35.4
06-07 LAL 77 77 40.8 0.463 0.344 0.868 1.0 4.7 5.7 5.4 1.4 0.5 3.31 2.70 31.6
07-08 LAL 82 82 38.9 0.459 0.361 0.840 1.1 5.2 6.3 5.4 1.8 0.5 3.13 2.80 28.3
Career -- 866 718 36.5 0.453 0.340 0.839 1.2 4.1 5.3 4.6 1.5 0.5 2.94 2.70 25.0
All-Star -- 10 10 26.8 0.500 0.350 0.778 1.4 3.2 4.6 4.7 2.6 0.4 2.70 2.80 18.0



Career Playoff Averages for kobe
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
96-97 LAL 9 0 14.8 0.382 0.261 0.867 0.1 1.1 1.2 1.2 0.3 0.2 1.56 2.60 8.2
97-98 LAL 11 0 20.0 0.408 0.214 0.689 0.6 1.3 1.9 1.5 0.3 0.7 1.00 2.50 8.7
98-99 LAL 8 8 39.4 0.430 0.348 0.800 1.6 5.3 6.9 4.6 1.9 1.2 3.88 3.00 19.8
99-00 LAL 22 22 39.0 0.442 0.344 0.754 1.2 3.3 4.5 4.4 1.5 1.5 2.50 4.00 21.1
00-01 LAL 16 16 43.4 0.469 0.324 0.821 1.8 5.4 7.3 6.1 1.6 0.8 3.19 3.30 29.4
01-02 LAL 19 19 43.8 0.434 0.379 0.759 1.5 4.4 5.8 4.6 1.4 0.9 2.84 3.40 26.6
02-03 LAL 12 12 44.3 0.432 0.403 0.827 1.3 3.8 5.1 5.2 1.2 0.1 3.50 2.90 32.1
03-04 LAL 22 22 44.2 0.413 0.247 0.813 0.8 3.9 4.7 5.5 1.9 0.3 2.77 2.70 24.5
05-06 LAL 7 7 44.9 0.497 0.400 0.771 0.6 5.7 6.3 5.1 1.1 0.4 4.71 3.60 27.9
06-07 LAL 5 5 43.0 0.462 0.357 0.919 0.2 5.0 5.2 4.4 1.0 0.4 4.40 2.00 32.8
07-08 LAL 15 15 40.3 0.509 0.295 0.814 0.7 5.4 6.1 5.8 1.3 0.5 3.13 2.70 31.9
Career -- 146 126 39.0 0.447 0.326 0.798 1.0 4.0 5.1 4.6 1.3 0.7 2.88 3.10 24.2





Jordan won numerous awards and set many records during his career. The following are some of his achievements:

Select awards

14-time All-Star
Olympic Gold Medalist—1984, 1992
Five-time MVP—1988, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1998
Six-time NBA Finals MVP—1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998
Seven-time The Sporting News MVP—1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1996, 1997, 1998
Rookie of the Year—1985
Defensive Player of the Year—1988
11-time All-NBA—10 times first team, 1 time second team
Nine-time All-Defensive First Team
Sports Illustrated "Sportsman of the Year"—1991
Named one of the 50 Greatest Players in NBA History in 1996
Two-time Slam Dunk Contest champion—1987, 1988
Select records

Most scoring titles—10
Most All-Defensive First Teams—9
Most NBA Finals MVP awards—6
Highest career scoring average—30.12
Highest career scoring average playoffs—33.45
Most consecutive games scoring in double figures—866
Highest single series scoring average NBA Finals—41.0 (1993)




KOBE'S Awards and achievements
3-time NBA champion: 2000, 2001, 2002
NBA Most Valuable Player: 2008
2-time scoring champion: 2006, 2007
10-time NBA All-Star: 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
Has started in each of his appearances
10 consecutive appearances (No All-Star game in 1999 due to league-wide lock-out)
2-time NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2002, 2007
10-time All-NBA Selection:
First Team: 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
Second Team: 2000, 2001
Third Team: 1999, 2005
8-time All-Defensive Selection:
First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008
Second Team: 2001, 2002
NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1997
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion: 1997
NBA regular season leader in:
points: 2003 (2,461), 2006 (2,832, 7th in NBA history), 2007 (2,430), 2008 (2,323)
points per game: 2006 (35.4, 9th in NBA history), 2007 (31.6)
field goals attempted: 2006 (2,173), 2007 (1,757), 2008 (1,690)
field goals made: 2003 (868), 2006 (978), 2007 (813)
free throws attempted: 2006 (819), 2007 (768)
free throws made: 2006 (696), 2007 (667)
2nd most points in a Game: 81 (January 22, 2006 vs. the Toronto Raptors)

NBA records
Kobe Bryant holds four and shares five NBA records:

Most three-point field goals made, one game: 12 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics; shared with Donyell Marshall)[40]
Most three-point field goals made, one half: 8 (March 28 2003 vs. Washington Wizards; shared with 6 players).[40]
Most consecutive three-point field goals made, one game: 9 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics; shared with Latrell Sprewell and Ben Gordon).[41]
Most free throws made, one quarter: 14 (3rd quarter, December 20 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 6 players).[42][43]
Most free throws attempted, one quarter: 16 (3rd quarter, December 20 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks; shared with 6 players).[42][43]
Youngest player to score 15,000 points: (27 Years, 136 days)
Youngest player to score 20,000 points: (29 years, 122 days old), surpassing Wilt Chamberlain, the previous holder of the record. Bryant also became one of the only three players to reach the milestone under the age of 30. The other two are Chamberlain (29 years, 134 days old) and Michael Jordan (29 years, 326 days old).[44]
Youngest Slam Dunk champion: (18 years, 175 days), after winning the contest at the 1997 NBA All-Star Weekend.
Youngest player to be named to the NBA All-Defensive Team: (1999-00 NBA season)[45]
Youngest player to start a game: (18 Years, 158 days)

Lakers franchise records
Kobe Bryant holds or shares 30 Los Angeles Lakers franchise records:

Points
Season: 2,832 (2005-06)
Game: 81 (January 22 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors)[46][3]
Half: 55 (2nd half, January 22 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors).[46]
Quarter: 30 (twice, most recently on November 30, 2006 in 3rd quarter vs. Utah Jazz)[46]
Games scoring 50 points or more, career: 23[45]
Games scoring 50 points or more, season: 10 (2006-07)[45]
Games scoring 40 points or more, career: 92[47]
Games scoring 40 points or more, season: 27 (2005-06)[48]
Consecutive games of 50 points or more: 4 (March 1623 2007)[49]
Consecutive games of 40 points or more: 9 (February 6February 23 2003)[50]
Field goals made
Half: 18 (2nd half, January 22 2006 vs. Toronto Raptors).[51]
Quarter: 11 (February 2 1999 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[52]
Free throws made
Game: 23 (twice, most recently on January 31 2006 vs. New York Knicks).[53]
Game, playoffs: 21 (May 4]2008 vs. Utah Jazz).[54]
Half: 16 (January 30 2001 vs. Cleveland Cavaliers)[55]
Quarter: 14 (3rd quarter, December 20 2005 vs. Dallas Mavericks)[56]
Quarter, playoffs: 11 (tied with 3 players; May 8 1997 vs. Utah Jazz).[57]
Consecutive: 62 (January 1122, 2006).[46]
Three-point field goals made and attempted
Career: 1,086 (1996present)[2]
Career, playoffs: 168 (1996present)[58]
Game: 12 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[41]
Half: 8 (1st half, March 28 2003 vs. Washington Wizards).[59]
Consecutive: 9 (January 7 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[41]
Season attempts: 518 (2005-06)[2]
Game attempts: 18 (January 7, 2003 vs. Seattle SuperSonics).[41]
Steals
Half: 6 (tied with 3 players; February 13 2006 vs. Utah Jazz).[60]
Quarter, playoffs: 3 (tied with 6 players; May 17 1999 vs. San Antonio Spurs).[61]

Other awards and achievements
Gold Medal with Team USA, Tournament of Americas Olympic Qualifiers
1996 Naismith High School Player of the Year[31]
1996 Gatorade Circle of Champions High School Player of the Year[31]
1996 McDonald's High School All-American[31]
1996 USA Today All-USA First Team[31]
1995 Adidas ABCD Camp Senior MVP[31]
Named to the USA Today All-Time All-USA First Team in 2003.[31]
USA Today and PARADE's 1996 National High School Player of the Year with a seasonal average of 30.8 points, 12.0 rebounds, 6.5 assists, 4.0 steals and 3.9 blocks per game.[2]
Led Lower Merion High School to a 31-3 record, including 27 straight wins, and the PIAA Class AAAA state title as a senior. The Aces defeated Erie Cathedral Prep 48-43 to take home the gold (1996).[2]
The all-time leading scorer in Southeastern Pennsylvania school history with 2,883 points.[2]
Had his Lower Merion High School number 33 retired on January 26, 2002.

[oghennylo]

I like Kobe, but I wanna be like Mike. At this point in their careers who came up more clutch. Who could carry their team and get things done when it matters. I remember numerous games where mike would just take over an entire game. Jordan was the man who took the last shot and made it count so many times in the post season. Kobe did not do that tonight. I'm not saying anything bad about Kobe. Just that Mike is more clutch when it counts.

[rico002]

i love kobe but he is not jordan or isnt the next jordan, kobe is the next kobe and lebron is the next lebron, chris paul is not the next isiah he is the next chris paul,.....with that said to me jordan is the best all around player in the history of the nba, i honestly believe he could play any position well and avg. at the 5 but kobe is the best player in the nba right now, i believe kobe has 3-5 great years ( that means to me where he could potentially lead the league in ppg) but there will NEVER be another jordan he's done so much and was extremely talented...I like how kobe doesnt want to be compared and yet he love jordans fist pump and similar fade away.....Oh yea u kno how ppl see great bball plays and we r like "oh that was jordan" or "jordan-like-esc" (sp?)....i say it some times wit kobe but nvr wit lebron or anyone else for me the best players in nba here it is (this is really really hard)

jordan
kobe
oscar - avg. a triple double 5 TIMES thats insane
wilt
baylor

not in any order

[omarnova]

Jordan is better by this time jordan had 15 MVPS kobe just got his cherry popped lol

[worldwide]

Originally Posted by rico002

i love kobe but he is not jordan or isnt the next jordan, kobe is the next kobe and lebron is the next lebron, chris paul is not the next isiah he is the next chris paul,.....with that said to me jordan is the best all around player in the history of the nba, i honestly believe he could play any position well and avg. at the 5 but kobe is the best player in the nba right now, i believe kobe has 3-5 great years ( that means to me where he could potentially lead the league in ppg) but there will NEVER be another jordan he's done so much and was extremely talented...I like how kobe doesnt want to be compared and yet he love jordans fist pump and similar fade away.....Oh yea u kno how ppl see great bball plays and we r like "oh that was jordan" or "jordan-like-esc" (sp?)....i say it some times wit kobe but nvr wit lebron or anyone else for me the best players in nba here it is (this is really really hard)

jordan
kobe
oscar - avg. a triple double 5 TIMES thats insane
wilt
baylor

not in any order

could'nt have said it better Wizard fans and DC stand up

[Dooper]

Kobe will be the closest player ever to Jordan. Will he ever be better, NO. Will anyone ever? NO.

[AL_CAPONE_X3]

Jordan Is Way Better!



Kobe Is Just An Big Baby! He Sucks And Is Over Rated!


By The Way!


Go Celtics!

[rico002]

Originally Posted by worldwide

could'nt have said it better Wizard fans and DC stand up

yea boyyy...welcome to dc

[Silent Assasin]

Wow, there are so many issues with this question, different era, rules different, players more atheletic, etc. The problem with looking strictly at numbers is that Kobe was not the #1,or 2 option his 1st few years in the league. He didn't get a lot of minutes either. Shaq was the man that demanded the ball and dictated the pace which was not great for Kobe. Jordan was deemed the saviour from day one and played as the 1st, second and 3rd option. Of course Kobe had to have an off game to hurt my argument. The question posed is, at this age, is Kobe a more complete player? Jordan was not a great shooter in his 20's. He developed a more complete game in his 30's due to saving himself from unnecessary wear and tear from driving to the basket and taking fouls. I'm not comparing Jordan's total body of work with Kobe, just his abilities in his 20's.