The Frustration with Noobs

[roopull]

Hi guys.
A quick thanks to all the guys running the site & providing the content. I'm lovin' it.

I do notice, though, there's a lot of frustration with noobs, here.

They're constantly posting in the wrong sections, threads are constantly moved & the refrain of "search first," is... well... constant.

I'm a member of several forums, and while this is present on every forum I visit, it is mind-numbing, here. Along with the mind-numbing number of noob mistakes is the number of veterans to the site correcting the errors.


I have a few thoughts, and please don't be offended.
The site IS hard to navigate. The biggest problem, imo, is the fact that the layout changes depending on which "style" you have enabled. The Black & Red style is different than the Tech Trends. So, you guys who kindly give navigation to a noob & tell them, "The themes are right there! IN THE SIDE PANEL," need to remember that the side panel doesn't exist in the Black & Red theme. I believe that's the new default theme, btw. I could just imagine a noob's head exploding while looking for that elusive side menu!

Second is the main page. If you simply go to "www.wckediden.com," and look around, the main page isn't exactly clear. I mean, it MIGHT be clear if you've been browsing the site for a while, but if you're a noob, you're lost. For example, looking at the front page, exactly WHERE would you think to click to find applications for your new Touch Pro?
There's more going on on the front page than a 3 ring circus. I think the site probably has every single feature enabled on the portal page.
In the Red & Black theme, once you're logged in, from the top, you have
A floating links bar that follows you around,
A Portal/Forum tab
Main header with ads to the right
A bar of ads
A scrolling marquis
A donate block
A "random group" block
9 tabs of categories - many with warnings about who can & how to post
the various forums
who is online & other stats
"Pocket Pc Technology - Mobile Resource And Tweaks Statistics"
"modification statistics" with some curious links I haven't quite figured out, yet.
"new to site" links - funny that it's at the bottom.
another ad banner
style selector & obligatory website footer.

Trust me, guys. THAT is a LOT of stuff to cram into the front page.


I know just enough about computers and PPCs to break 'em. BUT, I do know a thing or two about people. They're lazy and want quick answers. The ONLY way to get quick answers here is to do a Google search. You sure aren't going to come here & know where to find anything by the intuitive layout. But, people aren't going to do a search, first. They're going to find the first "post new thread" link or "post reply" link & WHAM! You have a stupid thread in the wrong place or an out of context post in a pre-existing thread.



Please don't take all of this as a complaint. I'm just trying to explain why it seems *to me* like noobs seem intent on posting the most random crap imaginable. They're doing it out of frustration and laziness.

Myself... I just Google search it & have bookmarked a page or two. I've been visiting here for almost a year & I still can't find my way around all that well. IMO, the site could use some severe simplification.


Alrighty... do with that what you wish. File 13 it for all I care. I got it off my chest... added my pathetic little bit of input... I only hope it helps in some way.


Again... not meant as a whining complaint, just some insight, I hope.

Thanks to all of you - D/\SH, specifically, who steered me here.
If I ever win the lotto, the ads & needed hardware "donate" links will be a thing of the past.:happy6:
-Roo

[TaylorSPJ]

dualy noted....but about a quarter down the page you answered as to why we do it....PEOPLE ARE LAZY....most of the people we tell off and repeated offenders...and they simply dont read through the entire thread...(most dont want to read because they are lazy....)....i knew nothin about ppc's 4 months ago,...i simply learned by readin every post b4 responding with a question if it wasnt already answered...point 2...in most threads...the question the "noobs" ask is already answered...again LAZY. but if someone can figure out how to change the theme of the site, i am confident they can use the search, find the forum, find themes section, rom section, support section. And the first thing intructed to new user is the NOOB guide, SITE guide, RULES guide. after that point and still questions bein repeated over and over again....yes we tend to get irritated, Again all your points taken...but this isnt the first attempt for an excuse to be lazy. not sayin you are. and to honest with you....this site ( as i am also a member at other sites...just not a regular on em)...is by far the easiest, cleanest and most well imformed site to date. there isnt 1,000+ post to read through, there isnt the same post and or question repeated 100 times with 100 different answers. we are percise, with a quick response. so maybe take some of this in and see it from our point of view...its not our only job to repeat the same things over and over again. We put alot of time and effort into making this site run and stay functional with limited room for laziness on other peoples end.

So thank your for your comment, and hope to see ya more on the boards.

[roopull]

Oh, I wasn't meaning to suggest that any changes should ever be made for the sake of making things easier on the noobs. If you're too lazy to look around a bit or search, screw off.

I think making some changes would make the site more enjoyable for all of the guys having to constantly clean up after them. In the end, it'd make things easier for everyone.

Once you're in a thread, generally, you're right. The threads are merged, moved, and kept relatively clean of BS posts. I especially like that old & busted threads are actually deleted. The site is super-managed. But, the layout could use some serious help, imo.:glasses1:

[TaylorSPJ]

Originally Posted by roopull

Oh, I wasn't meaning to suggest that any changes should ever be made for the sake of making things easier on the noobs. If you're too lazy to look around a bit or search, screw off.

I think making some changes would make the site more enjoyable for all of the guys having to constantly clean up after them. In the end, it'd make things easier for everyone.

Once you're in a thread, generally, you're right. The threads are merged, moved, and kept relatively clean of BS posts. I especially like that old & busted threads are actually deleted. The site is super-managed. But, the layout could use some serious help, imo.:glasses1:

i guess i have to agree to disagree.....it only took me a few times of going through the site to get use to the layout....i personally use dark trends....super easy to navigate the site....i dont even have to use the side bar....the search on the top right of the site is the most useful hack on this site....and the issue that you are describing is that of the noobish way....the first thing again that is asked of a new member is to read the site guide, search guide, noob guide, in which explains how to use every section in the site....we could go on for hours discussing issues and solutions, but in the end it simply comes down to laziness. and that can only be inforced with a swift hand and the occasional stern comments. if they cant figure out how to use a forum site, well then they arent bright enough to do things to their phones.

[roopull]

Originally Posted by TaylorWckediden

. if they cant figure out how to use a forum site, well then they arent bright enough to do things to their phones.

LOL... now, that's funny. You could call it a way of protecting them from themselves.

[TaylorSPJ]

exactly....but water under the bridge.....all good here.

[elboriyorker]

i appreciate your concern and its noted.But I've been doing this for years,And in those years i've learned that everyone is unique. And being unique is how you manged a board.Now I make this board noob proof and as easy as ebonics..But in total reality it wont matter.Because you will have people that apparently don't know how to read and follow directions.This board is very simple to manage and browse But everyone is focus on getting the goodies (software) and others that they don't take the time to see how this board function.

So that being said this board is actually cleaner then most vb run site and i don't see a problem. with the layout...That's why we are unique and will stay unique.

Unless maybe i should charge an entrance fee to the site, and hire someone to make it so that everyone can enjoy the site.and it easy for them to browse.But being that this is a free community site and we have qualify staff that offer there FREE time to help everyone here. So we mange what we have here and we do great overall.

since you had to get that off your chest. I'm going to tell you what my momma tell me all the time." IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT THEN GET OUT" not to be rude but straight forward.

so have a good day...and enjoy browsing the forum.

[TaylorSPJ]

Originally Posted by elboriyorker

i appreciate your concern and its noted.But I've been doing this for years,And in those years i've learned that everyone is unique. And being unique is how you manged a board.Now I make this boar noob proof and as easy as ebonics..But in total reality it wont matter.Because you will have people that apparently don't know how to read and follow directions.This board is very simple to manage and browse But everyone is focus on getting the goodies (software) and others that they don't take the time to see how this board function.

So that being said this board is actually cleaner then most vb run site and i don't see a problem. with the layout...That's why we are unique and will stay unique.

Unless maybe i should charge an entrance fee to the site, and hire someone to make it so that everyone can enjoy the site.and it easy for them to browse.But being that this is a free community site and we have qualify staff that offer there FREE time to help everyone here. So we mange what we have here and we do great overall.

since you had to get that off your chest. I'm going to tell you what my momma tell me all the time." IF YOU CANT STAND THE HEAT THEN GET OUT" not to be rude but straight forward.

so have a good day...and enjoy browsing the forum.

lol....i love how you dont sugar coat anything...i tried to be as nice as i could.....but eh...i personally think, (not just because this is my second home)...that this is by FAR the easiest board to navigate, everything is clear when it comes to what is where and why....keep it up PB....

[elboriyorker]

Originally Posted by TaylorWckediden

lol....i love how you dont sugar coat anything...i tried to be as nice as i could.....but eh...i personally think, (not just because this is my second home)...that this is by FAR the easiest board to navigate, everything is clear when it comes to what is where and why....keep it up PB....

lol..one thing about me i never sugar coat anything brotha..if i can rap good i can make Eminem cry to his momma...lol but this is not a money making site to be worry about petty comments we offer to our members free advice with incentives and make them happy.But actually that's how i speak out very bluntly.:glasses1:

[TaylorSPJ]

Originally Posted by elboriyorker

lol..one thing about me i never sugar coat anything brotha..if i can rap good i can make Eminem cry to his momma...lol but this is not a money making site to be worry about petty comments we offer to our members free advice with incentives and make them happy.But actually that's how i speak out very bluntly.:glasses1:

yup, thats what gets me heated too, people complainin day in day out about shit thats free and comes w/ 100% support from us staff....my wife doesnt understand when im starring at the laptop screen cursin about noobs..."what are noobs babe???" lol....anyways, i thought i'd put my two sence in with this guy and i hope alot of the complianers read this and get the hint.
hit me up with a pm, i want to talk to ya bout somethin.thnx

[scott8813]

It's appreciated and welcomed any ideas and feed back that users can or wish to offer. It is also, however, a rarety that when stating their mind that they take into any consideration the amount of time, effort, and work put into creating and maintaining a functional and clean site such as this one. So I thank you for giving a perspective that a "senior" member may have long since forgotten since being a noob. But that's what they are.....Noobs. Where they go from there mostly lies in their own hands and how much they are into the idea of perfecting and tweaking the abilities and feel of their devices. Should they have such an interest that pulls their "need to know" strings then more often then not they will do what it takes to follow the rules an read necessary literature on the site to get out of it what they want. Others just browsing through for a quick fix of sorts and really nothing more would most likely not have any interest other than curing their current ills. That's why some noobs stay noobs. And the noobs with interest in knowing more than they do can lose any what "lazy gene" they may have to achieve such a status to where they know what it is to be a junkie. So basically I guess what I'm saying is it's "Wckediden all the way" or "browse for help another day!"

[Superman369]

Everything needed to learn anything about the site is right there in front of them, if they just decide to research and read before trying to grab n go. I went from knowing absolutely nothing about ppc's before I joined on Sept 22. Now 4 months later, Im a freaking admin!! So it drives me up a wall when I see lazy people not trying and wanting to be spoon fed. I'm all about helping somebody with anything, but I'm not going to always hand out direct links to people. I do sometimes, you guys know that...but it gets old. Like the old saying says, "Give a man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for life." And thats why it is so important for the noobs to research and learn how to find stuff on there own. There is NO other site out there like ours. Absolutely none. So, I say, if you dont like the rules, peace the f*ck out. Lol, rant done:)

[Mike20PR]

i believe if you have a blank screen on the homepage with two huge links with big colorful pictures, one saying "get software here" and other saying "get support here" there will always be pple who have trouble navigating the site due to laziness. i appreciate the feedback and understand where you are coming from but comments like "this site is hard to navigate" or "im so lost" are from pple who just want to get a program that they want and leave (leeches) and just go directly to a specific location, and dont take the time to get familiar with the board by looking around the site

[roopull]

Nice replies, guys. I'm glad none of you took the post as insulting or whatever.

I'm an admin at two other sites, myself, so I'm not stranger to what it takes to make a forum work. Thinking back on it, I guess the biggest confusion noobs must have is the two differing layouts with the two differing styles.

I'm kinda' like elboriyorker in that I sometimes have a hard time putting things in delicate pretty terms that don't offend people. That first post took a while to word so I didn't sound like a jerk. Who knows... maybe I did.

Anyhoo... that's all I've got.
Talkatchya,
-Roo.


Oh, anyone know where I can find the cab file for...




Just kidding.

[D/\SH]

i look at it this way:

1. i have to agree with elboriyorker on the fact that the board is as noob friendly as they get on vb (if not the easiest to navigate) (look at xda and ppcgeeks) (both very messy)
2. you have to think of it this way, when you are looking for a certain app and you find it at a forum, to download you have to sign up. after you sign up do you go from the homepage and try to find your app there or do you go back to the google page and click on the link and than sign in and download than leave? the people that want the one program wont care about reading the stuff. i know when i find the app ill read maby a couple posts to make sure it is still a good valid download but thats it. thats what they are doing. i have to be a member of 100 different forums if not more and i visit a total of 4-5 of them every month..
3. dont disrespect since we value all members outlooks and their opinions on topics. skins are that, skins..... in skins you can change the icons and the pictures so why not the same with the othr skins?

[BiG JeW]

All i can say to the noobs are :noob: :jew4:

[MikeyD]

All i have to say to this is that i agree with ALL staff.......if you take some time this site is easy to get around, and like dash said the other ones are hard to navigate, i still cant find stuff that i want or need. thats why i spend about 98% of time on Wckediden cuz its easy find stuff. Btw we also have a top notch staff, when i go to the other sites ive been flamed for asking a question way worse then i ever got here.

[jagged]

--------- New Post Merged on 6/2/2009 at 09:01:18 --------

to be honest as a new smart phone user theres lots of info but most is over my head. This seems more of an advanced user site. lots of great info if but I got no clue as to what your talking about:) also im so afraid to post anything for worry of being called a noob n stupid i just dont

its kinda like a online game I play. theres the basic forums then theres an Elitist forum, The elitist forum is great once you figured out the basics but until then its a different language

[grem89]

i agree. I have to admit I'm very new at customizing my phone but there are a lot of people just getting lazy with this forum. Half the time it takes me a while to find what i need but in that process i learn more than i could if someone 'held my hand' and showed me exactly where to go and how to do it. I like the site's setup and I get a lot more out of Wckediden than other sites.

[fanaticny]

Well, there's a reason why forums exist, so that noobs can learn something. If everyone knew how to customize their phones, guess what?, Wckediden wouldn't exist in the first place. Why bit** about something that is one of the objectives of forums?. Were we ever expected to know how to sum after learning how to count from 1 to 10?, i doubt it.

[D/\SH]

Originally Posted by fanaticny

Well, there's a reason why forums exist, so that noobs can learn something. If everyone knew how to customize their phones, guess what?, Wckediden wouldn't exist in the first place. Why bit** about something that is one of the objectives of forums?. Were we ever expected to know how to sum after learning how to count from 1 to 10?, i doubt it.

but when there's an email that states to please use the search function and they don't wouldn't you get a little frusterated? would it bug you too see someone asking on the boards where can i find this app or that app when all they have to do is use the search feature... that easy..... if they can use google they can use forums.... thats what really gets to me and they blame it on being a noob... im sorry if you cant use the search feature your not a nob you are an utter dumbass.

[fanaticny]

Originally Posted by D/\SH

but when there's an email that states to please use the search function and they don't wouldn't you get a little frusterated? would it bug you too see someone asking on the boards where can i find this app or that app when all they have to do is use the search feature... that easy..... if they can use google they can use forums.... thats what really gets to me and they blame it on being a noob... im sorry if you cant use the search feature your not a nob you are an utter dumbass.

What if a person's is not familiar with forums?, they're not stupid, they just don't know how to use it, and we've all gone thru that, just bc you know how to get around doesn't mean you have to assume that everyone is familiar with forums and that there is such thing as a Search feature. If it helps, put a welcome pop up window that reads, "If you're a noob, get the f** away", and if that happens, then why even have a forum?

[D/\SH]

Originally Posted by fanaticny

What if a person's is not familiar with forums?, they're not stupid, they just don't know how to use it, and we've all gone thru that, just bc you know how to get around doesn't mean you have to assume that everyone is familiar with forums and that there is such thing as a Search feature. If it helps, put a welcome pop up window that reads, "If you're a noob, get the f** away", and if that happens, then why even have a forum?

if you want to keep arguing go right ahead but its not goingot change the way this place it ran and if you dont like than kindly dont return..... seriously you receive an email telling you many points about the site including hte search feature, the groups, the help desk, the programs area, etc and they just overlook that and all because they are the ones that come for one app and dont take the time to learn the rules because they are leeching..... trust me bro you would think the same if you were the one that was a big part of a site.... when you waste bandwith with these noobs being lazy that costs you time and work........ you only think of it from one end.... and if you were on here or any other forum you would realize that we are the nicest on the noobs. we do help and guide them in the right way than give them the answer that they were lookign for.... ppcgeeks would have scolded you 20 users down before you would have got an answer. i think you are just being a little too sensative about the whole fact. you got to think of it in other peoples shoes. a website is not an easy thing to keep up with and the noobs and vets that are too lazt to use the same search feature that i use jsut frusterates me since they act liek they want their hand held and if your hand is held forever you will never learn to do anything for yourself..... im not dayin im right or wrong or that your wrong or right.... we all have opinions but the above is my stance on the topic.

[angiekay]

Originally Posted by fanaticny

What if a person's is not familiar with forums?, they're not stupid, they just don't know how to use it, and we've all gone thru that, just bc you know how to get around doesn't mean you have to assume that everyone is familiar with forums and that there is such thing as a Search feature. If it helps, put a welcome pop up window that reads, "If you're a noob, get the f** away", and if that happens, then why even have a forum?

No disrespect, but there is a Noob Guide here built for JUST that purpose, to "clue the new users in" on how to navigate through the site and find things. where to post questions and all that. it's hard to believe that someone comes to this forum and HAS NEVER been a member of ANY forum in their entire life!!!! And they are basically all the same, you just have to "play around" a bit to learn it. The basic concept is to read, read, and re-read until you learn what you need to know, b/c basically all you need to know is already here and posted somewhere.

[fanaticny]

but im not arguing Dash, im just giving my point of view, trying to make you see where im coming from, and im not against how this site is run, you're getting heated for no reason, which makes me think your not paying attention to what im saying, but it's ok.

[TaylorSPJ]

Originally Posted by fanaticny

but im not arguing Dash, im just giving my point of view, trying to make you see where im coming from, and im not against how this site is run, you're getting heated for no reason, which makes me think your not paying attention to what im saying, but it's ok.

well the other issue is that you've been a member since 07'...long enough to learn to navigate the site.....if you stll cant that isnt because your a noob.....but just incapable of learning how too....dash gets what your saying but he gets fed up with expliaing himself all the time. it gets annoyin after a while

[Sh0wNuF]

maybe we should have it so whenever a new user joins, whatever link they click on will take them to the noob guide(don't know if that's possible) and then they can click a button after reading it and they have to take a like a 5-10 question quiz asking the most basic questions like where is the search button? what should you do if you don't know how to do something? stuff like that and when they pass the test they get full access to the site? just a random thought/idea

[1LOMOFO]

Originally Posted by Sh0wNuF

maybe we should have it so whenever a new user joins, whatever link they click on will take them to the noob guide(don't know if that's possible) and then they can click a button after reading it and they have to take a like a 5-10 question quiz asking the most basic questions like where is the search button? what should you do if you don't know how to do something? stuff like that and when they pass the test they get full access to the site? just a random thought/idea

and maybe ever making new members wait an x amount of days after they've joined to be able to download anything more complicated that a cab file.

[Superman369]

Originally Posted by Sh0wNuF

maybe we should have it so whenever a new user joins, whatever link they click on will take them to the noob guide(don't know if that's possible) and then they can click a button after reading it and they have to take a like a 5-10 question quiz asking the most basic questions like where is the search button? what should you do if you don't know how to do something? stuff like that and when they pass the test they get full access to the site? just a random thought/idea

Hahaha, we can call it the retardo-noobish test. Freaking brilliant!! Lol.

[angiekay]

Originally Posted by Superman369

Hahaha, we can call it the retardo-noobish test. Freaking brilliant!! Lol.

Yeah, like if you miss more than 5 questions...............your classification is RETARDO.............miss less than 5 questions.................NOOB! READ AGAIN.................LMFAO!!!!!!!!!